A First Glance at Yoshi's Movepool

This post is not intended to be a high-level or comprehensive look at Yoshi’s moveset. This is mostly here to document my reactions and thinking to looking at Yoshi’s frame data and hitboxes. I hope that by looking at these things critically and writing my thoughts about them, I will put myself into the mindset of looking for my own solutions for problems in-game with the tools Yoshi has. In order to make sure my evaluation of the attack is thorough (although I fully expect it to be incomplete and flawed), here is a list of criteria/things for me to consider for each one:

• Combo starter - This refers to the attack’s ability to be used to begin combos. Either pop them up or lead them to a knockdown, anything that can be consistently followed up on. The best combo starters are the ones that work at many percents (see: shine), but most won’t be like this.
• Reliability - The attack’s ability to be relied upon to serve specific uses. A good example of an attack that isn’t reliable would be Mr. Game and Watch’s Judgement. It’s purely RNG; if you were able to have more control over the outcome of the RNG roll, it would be a far better attack.
• Ability to extend combos - The attack’s ability to extend combos. This is clearly separate and unique from its ability to start combos because there are some attacks that are amazing for combo use that are very hard to land in neutral, or only work well once the opponent has been popped into the air.
• Precision necessary for use - It is preferable that the attack have a decent margin for error in use. For example, if an attack only had one decent hitbox on one frame of the attack, it would require an obscene amount of precision to get any mileage out of its use. Obviously this is an extreme example, but the general idea stays the same across all attacks.
• Catching movement - The attack’s ability to be used to catch the opponent’s movement. An attack notorious for this is Marth’s Fsmash. You can cover stand, dash back, and jump. The attack is overpowered in game modes like Single Button Melee because of your inability to shield the attack.
• Actionability out of defensive options -  This refers to the attack’s ability to be used out of things like CC, Parry, Shield drops, dash back, etc.
• Kill potential - An attack’s kill potential is its ability to be used in practical situations to kill the opponent. Fairly self-explanatory.
• Edgeguarding applications - This refers to the attack’s ability to be used at the edge to kill the opponent. Clear positive traits for this category are things like the attack’s ability to cover multiple options, be used with ledge invincibility, having a reliable disjoint, etc.

Now that we have those qualities defined, lets get right into my first thoughts about all of the attacks in Yoshi’s arsenal. All of the following data is taken from standardtoaster’s thread on SmashBoards [link].

• Jab
• Jab 1: [Total: 17, Hit: 3-5, Damage: 2-3]

• This attack seems like it would work pretty well as a reset. It doesn’t seem like it would true combo into anything, though, besides Jab 2, so the rest of its utility there seems pretty limited. It has an incredibly big hitbox and is very disjointed throughout the entirety of the attack below it. This means that it could potentially be used as an edgeguarding tool against characters rising up from under the stage, or as an anti-air against players below Yoshi while he’s on a platform. These are definite possibilities that could be looked into. This is also a pretty quick attack, meaning that you’d be able to use it as a panic option in close combat fairly effectively once the opponent is out of CC percent.
• Jab 2: [Window: 3-25, Total: 20, Hit: 4-6, Damage: 4-5]

• The main attack that Jab 1 would be combo’d into (discounting resets during a tech chase). This kicks the opponent away. If used near the edge it puts the opponent in a fairly bad position, one where they can get edgeguarded very easily. Combined with how quick Jab 1 comes out, this means it can probably be a very effective “get off me” attack.
• Ftilt
• UAFT: [Total: 29, Hit: 6-8, Damage: 6-12]
• A lot of Yoshi mains really like this attack, and it makes sense why. It’s a fairly good anti-air, it does a ton of damage for a tilt attack, and it can be used readily out of CC considering how quick of an attack it is.
• NAFT: [Total: 29, Hit: 6-8, Damage: 6-12]

• Similar to Yoshi’s jabs, his NAFT is consistently disjointed below it. It could probably be used in similar places I mentioned with jab, as a sort of anti-air from above.
• DAFT: [Total: 29, Hit: 6-8, Damage: 5-11]
• Since it goes lower than the other angles of Ftilt, I’d imagine that DAFT could potentially be effective after a crossup to poke the back of people’s shields. Mainly characters who have a high part of their body that pokes out, like Fox’s tail hurtbox.
• Dtilt
• [Total: 23, Hit: 8-10, Damage: 5-10]

• Dtilt is a super interesting attack in a similar vein to Marth and Roy’s Dtilt. It’s a grounded normal with set knockback which means it has strong applications as an edgeguarding tool and a combo starter, as well as a combo tool in and of itself. Against characters that it knocks down, it would potentially set up a tech chase scenario near the edge of the stage, which generally makes tech chasing easier. Against characters that it doesn’t knock down, it would put them in an arguably even worse position of being off stage/at the edge. It’s not the fastest attack in the game, only being frame 8, so it probably isn’t an effective scuffle attack unless I’m sure that the opponent will be in the general direction I am facing. Probably best out of CC during a scuffle when I see that they’re fading back with an aerial (A common thing for Marth to do during panic situations). Clearly the attack is very good and has a lot of potential for different uses.
• Utilt
• [Total: 29, Hit: 8-12, Damage: 5-10]

• This seems very similar in function to Yoshi’s UAFT. It’s an anti-air that can start combos. It’s slightly slower, coming out 2 frames slower than UAFT, but it actually has more upwards disjoint with the hitbox than UAFT, making it a better option against falling aerials. CC Utilt is a very difficult input, as well as pivot Utilt, so it won’t be as good of an attack out of those defensive options. It probably is not worth mastering CC Utilt for this attack, since it’s generally much better for the quicker attack out of CC, which would be UAFT.
• Dash Attack
• [Total: 43, Hit: 10-23, Head Invincible: 5-13, Damage: 7-9]

• This is an attack that sends at a pretty severe angle away, which means that it would definitely be pretty good as an edgeguarding tool, like for covering spacie Fspecials. Since the head is invincible even before the hitbox comes out, there is a very real chance that this could be a great call out against characters like Marth and Sheik who will fade back with a Fair a lot. Yoshi’s head might just phase right through it, then they’ll get smacked by the hitbox later on. Sheik’s AC Fair might be particularly hurt by this if the spacing works out in that way, even more so if she’s hiding under a platform near the edge doing them.
• Fsmash
• [Total: 47, Charge Frame: 6, Head Invincible: 12-16, Hit: 14-16, IASA: 44, Damage: 9-17]

• This is a very interesting attack because of the way Yoshi leans so far back when he is charging up the headbutt portion of the attack. It has pretty high knockback, so it will send people pretty far away, which means that it’s a solid kill option. Since the charge frame is frame 6, when you’re charging it, it effectively becomes a frame 8 attack. That means it could probably be used near the edge where you could react to tech in place/missed tech/tech toward edge and cover each of them with the same Fsmash. While the withdrawing motion at the beginning of the Fsmash is really interesting mechanically, it’s also a huge frame commitment, and isn’t as useful as a simple dash back in terms of its ability to avoid attacks. It seems pretty easy to punish, but I’ll keep it in the back of my mind for sure. I talked to Peanutphobia one time about the Marth matchup, and he said it was one of his favorite tools to punish bad Aerial approaches because it reaches so far forward. This seems like a solid application because you don’t necessarily need to react to the aerial itself, just the motion of Marth jumping at you, which makes this a much more reliable attack. Combine it with CC in case you misjudge the spacing, and that might be one of the best applications of the attack. Another solid thing to think about would be approaching with pivot Fsmash in combination with the other things I touched on.
• Dsmash
• [Total: 49, Charge Frame: 4, Hit: 6-8, 21-22]

• Dsmash hits twice, once in either direction. The charge frame being only 2 frames before the first hit means that it can be used as a frame 2 option for covering many tech options. I mentioned a scenario in the section about Fsmash where you force a tech near the edge, and I think Dsmash would cover that scenario a ton better. You would charge Dsmash with the first hit facing out away from center stage, then release the charge when you react to them hitting the ground. If they tech in place/missed tech, you would immediately release charge, if they tech away then you’d wait a few frames (I think?). It definitely has a ton of potential to cover multiple techs, similar to the Dsmash option coverage Marth has on Sheik. This is a super cool attack, and I want to explore it as much as possible.
• Usmash
• [Total: 43, Charge Frame: 6, Hit: 11-15, IASA: 40, Damage 8-15]

• Yoshi’s Usmash seems kinda similar to his Fsmash in the way he recoils before the attack portion. It hits very high which means it can’t be used as much outside of an anti-air, especially because his head is invincible for this attack. I imagine it might be good at catching people running off of platforms with aerials, or characters like Fox trying to use FH aerials. Surely something to look into.
• Nair
• [Total: 47, Hit: 3-33, IASA: 45, AC: <-2 36->, Lag: 7, Damage: 7-14]

• His Nair is mostly just a standard sex kick, but I think that it’s important to note that the hitbox is most disjointed behind him rather than in front of him like most character’s Nairs would be. It would probably be very beneficial to master RDJC Nair because of this, it would probably be the only reliable way of approaching with the attack. Clearly because it’s an aerial attack on a character with a DJC, this means that it can be used incredibly quickly on the ground, in a similar fashion to how Peach might use a quick FC Nair to cover a tech or to beat an inwards roll on reaction. Slightly more technically intensive, but the same end result. Rising weak Nair would probably be really useful as a combo extender, very similar in function to Fox or Falco doing the same exact thing. Since it does hit behind him, this attack also would be pretty solid to do crossups with.
• Fair
• [Total: 49, Hit: 19-21, IASA: 44, AC: <-3 36->, Lag: 10, Damage: 9-17]

• Yoshi’s Fair has a considerable amount of startup to it, but it feels roughly comparable to Falcon’s Dair, in terms of startup and application. It can probably be used in retreat to catch people’s approaches, like a Sheik’s grab, a spacie’s SHFFL aerial, etc. Since it’s a meteor, it would lead to something on hit regardless of if they were airborne or not. This is without a doubt going to be a solid defensive option and combo starter in neutral.
• Dair
• [Total: 59, Hit: 18-44 evens, IASA: 53, AC: <-15 50->, Lag: 13]

• Another very interesting attack. Each hit does approximately 4 damage, and each of them is a meteor. Yoshi is able to jump out of the attack less than 10 frames after the final hitbox, making it really easy to recover with DJ after using it off stage. This means that it’s probably a good tool for dragging people down to the blast zone during an edgeguard. Edgecancelling FH Dair against opponents who are on platforms. There was the really cool Avalancer combo against Amsah that started by pushing Sheik off of the platform with Dair on shield, and as much as that just seemed like the stylish thing to do, I think similar things might be competitively viable. Using it to decay the opponent’s shield would also be decent even if they don’t get knocked off. It’s for sure an attack that I want to experiment with a ton.
• Bair
• [Total: 39, Hit: 10-12, 16-18, 23-25, 28-30, IASA: 38, AC: <-9 33->, Lag: 7]

• Yoshi’s Bair is another aerial that ends very quickly after the final hitbox comes out. There’s only 8 frames of down time between the last hitbox and the IASA portion of the attack, meaning that if you catch someone with the Bair then it is incredibly easy to follow up on it with a DJC aerial like Uair or Nair. The hitbox also goes pretty far behind him and disjoints very well, meaning that it can be a very solid anti-air in neutral which can lead to many aerials or grounded normals.
• Uair
• [Total: 39, Hit: 5-6, AC: <-4 33->, Lag: 9]

• This this is waaay bigger than I thought it was. The attack is disjointed in pretty much every relevant direction, and it’s really quick on startup. I think the most obvious use for this is as a combo extender, most Melee players and even casual watchers who have seen aMSa play should know about the rapid fire DJC Uairs. I think it would be criminal to completely discount its use in other places, though. Clearly it would make an incredible anti-air, due to its incredible disjoint. I think I need to pay special attention to looking at what situations this kind of aerial anti-air would be best for dealing with.
• Nspecial
• [Total: 39, Grab: 7-21]

• Yoshi’s Nspecial is a really interesting attack that still doesn’t make a ton of sense to me. Whenever I watch aMSa play, he is able to convert off of his Nspecial very well, but despite seeing it happen I still don’t really get it. I will assume that I can study followups on it later, but I’m really interested in the hitbox right now. It’s very unique in the fact that you’re able to put out a grab hitbox in the air. A position that comes to mind especially is one where a character is sitting on the platform in shield, you could do a DJC Nspecial to clip their feet and pull them into the egg. If you spaced it right and hit their feet, you could catch a preemptive shield drop as well, effectively turning a difficult situation into a free neutral win. It could have significant impact on the risk/reward of that positioning in neutral.
• Fspecial
• [This attack sucks]

• Dspecial
• Aerial: [Hit: 19-Land, Ledgegrab: 18->]

• This attack has considerable horizontal disjoint, which can be combined with the fact that you can grab ledge during the attack to be used as an edgeguarding tool. Maybe falling at the same height as a spacie with a slightly staggered timing to cover multiple Fspecials down towards the ledge is an option that could work. Anyway, there’s definitely places that this could be utilized. I think I also saw a gif of aMSa using it to beat spacie Uspecial during edgeguarding as well. Potentially I could use it even on-stage and ignore the lag if I knew it was a situation where it would kill, which is something to keep in mind.
• Grounded: [Total: 36, Hit: 27-Land, Ledgegrab: 28->]

• I don’t think this attack has a ton of uses outside of very situational combo setups where I pop someone up in front of me with minimal lag. Outside of this I don’t see it being useful.
• Landing: [Total: 40, Hit: 1-16]

• The star hitboxes aren’t especially strong, but I do think that they can be abused in very situational places due to how completely removed from Yoshi’s hurtboxes they are. From some testing, it seems like Yoshi is able to do fairly consistent edgecancels of his Dspecial, which makes me feel like this is an entirely new type of combo extender that could be abused on platforms by Yoshi. Tons of labbing time needs to be put into edgecanceled Dspecials.
• Uspecial
• [Total: 54, Projectile: 18, Ledgegrab: 19->, Lasts: 55, Explodes: 56-58]

• At a first glance I thought that this attack was slow and finicky and not super useful, but the more I played around with it and tested different ideas, the more I’m leaning towards thinking this attack is just outright busted. Against spacies it effectively is a long-range combo starter, it can force a techchase situation from the other side of the stage. Cancelling the attack with a ledgegrab makes the attack useful on an entirely new level too, making it into one of the most versatile ledge stalling tools in the game. It also has applications from an edgeguarding perspective, you could throw the egg to cover one option then grab ledge to cover more, or similar styles of option coverage. Clearly Uspecial will be an attack to look at a lot for tons of different situations.
• Grab
• Standing: [Total: 79, Hit: 18-23]

• I’d heard that Yoshi’s grab wasn’t that great, but if you combine the weird Z-axis stuff that happens with this awful frame data, then it’s hard to argue anything other than this being practically the worst grab in the game. It doesn’t have the reliability necessary to be a good attack for regular use, and while he does have some grab followups, they’re unspectacular at best. It’s something to look into for sure, but I don’t think standing grab will be very central to my gameplay. It’s very unfortunate that it’s so bad, because Yoshi’s OoS options are already so incredibly limited.
• Running: [Total: 70, Hit: 11-16]

• While still not great Yoshi’s running grab is far closer to being an acceptable attack. It comes out 7 frames quicker, and has 9 less frames of commitment, although I doubt that 9 frames counts for anything. When you give someone 70 frames to react to something and punish it, giving them another 9 isn’t going to make a big difference. One thing that I need to look into with the grab is seeing how fast the grab hitbox moves while I am running. If it extends forward while my body is also moving forward, then I’d imagine it would be pretty good at covering stand/dash back/etc in one motion. It’s definitely something to look into.